The Quiet American, 1958
2002 version (note, this version is broken into small sections!) (optional)
Vietnam (1954-1968)
La Mer, 1946
Lyrics:
The sea,
seen dancing along clear gulfs
with silver reflections
The sea,
changing reflections
beneath the rain
The sea
Under a summer sky
Merges whitecaps
With angels so pure
The sea, shepherdess of
Endless blue
Under a summer sky
Merges whitecaps
With angels so pure
The sea, shepherdess of
Endless blue
Look:
Near ponds
tall, wet reeds
Look:
white birds
and rusty houses
Near ponds
tall, wet reeds
Look:
white birds
and rusty houses
The sea,
it has calmed
the clear gulfs
with a love song
The sea,
it has calmed my heart
it has calmed
the clear gulfs
with a love song
The sea,
it has calmed my heart
Homework:
Please answer the following questions in one paragraph per
question:
1. Why were the French unable to keep control of Vietnam?
2. Should the US have become more directly involved in
helping the French at Dien Bien Phu?
3. What was agreed at the Geneva Conference, in relation to
Indochina?
4. What was the significance of the agreements at the Geneva
Conference?
Short Presentations: Choose either:
A French cultural contribution to Vietnamese history or
society.
OR
A major battle in the French Indochina War.
27 comments:
The reading was cool because it was different. Getting somebody's view of what was happening instead of just a historical account was really eye-opening. The author poured his feeling into his writing, which helped me see what the times were like a lot better.
I also enjoyed the part in the Vietnam video were both Kennedy and the Russian guy (was that Khrushchev?) gave their speeches. The Russian guy was ruthless, talking about burying his enemies swiftly and deeply. Kennedy talked about how the U.S. would be willing to fight and sacrifice to ensure liberty for the world. I just think it seemed neat how the two were different.
It was kind of crazy how much the Vietnamese were at the advantage during the war since they were fighting at home. The Vietnamese were able to win battles because they got the Americans to fight the way they wanted. That one guy kept saying "we outsmarted the Americans" or "we outmaneuvered them"
It was also interesting how the US didn't have any game plan to win the war, they were just waiting for Vietnam to give up.
I thought it was interesting how the battle between the French and Vietnamese was the first time a small feudal power beat a large colonial power. I also thought it was interesting how there were civilian riots in Vietnam, kind of like how there were protests in America against war in Vietnam.
In my opinion, the confidence of the U.S. marines and how their presence in Vietnam would "terrify the enemy" kind of exemplified the overall spirit of America as a world power after WWII.
I also found it interesting that the Communist Soviet Union was trying to help Vietnam gain independence, which seems to be a very American way of thinking, but now the U.S. is trying to prevent Vietnam "independence."
We get some insight from these videos on the Asian military mindset when General Westmoreland talks about Vietnamese being more willing to pay a far greater price than the Americans.
Oh and the little girl plucking and counting the petals off the flower totally skipped "6."
Adding a bit to Marc, I gotta wonder if using the girl was bit of a double ploy. In one sense, it matched the counting down for the explosion. In another, attempting to juxtapose something horrific, like war, with a tiny child is an interesting, if not somewhat dark, tactic. Mixing evil with innocence. I was kinda thinking they were gonna drop a bomb on her actually, so I was relieved they didn't. Still, mixing the two is absolutely creepy because those are two things that AREN'T supposed to mix.
Yes the reading was definitely cool because of the different feel of the first person narration. Favorite character is Mrs. Grady. Coincidence?????Not sure exactly who or what she is but I like her. Definitely a interesting time era. It's interesting to follow the steps that military tactics have gone through the years. During the revolutionary war people fought standing in a line on an open field with a musket. Very different from the gorilla warfare of Vietnam.
In response to Frannie's comment:
Yea it is totally weird that they (Americans)did not have much of a plan. But the war was really controversial maybe too much action would have made some Americans angry.
Like Nate said, it was really interesting reading from a particular viewpoint. You got Joseph Alsop's personal experiences and memories like the story of how he was granted a visit to the Viet Minh Civil Affairs Bureau and then was put "under a gentle form of house arrest." I also loved how "The Quiet American" and "The Weather in the Streets" closely paralleled each other. Watching the movie brought the reading to life. While watching the movie I just felt that the story was an image of the war itself. Both men had different ways in which they approached Phuong, just as each of the countries had a different ways of approaching the country.
Yeah, I agree with you guys about "The Weather in the Streets." I love how the journalist described the people he met, painting a picture for us. This reading reminded me of the reality of the time period since the author wrote in such a detailed, personal way. I also appreciated how he defined unfamiliar terms as I find most authors aren't that nice! Lastly, I enjoyed phrases like "unimaginably delicious dinner." He and I both share a love for food! Haha
@Rob,
Yes, I loved Mrs. Grady too. She was quite a character.
@Frannie, Yes, it was very strange/disturbing to hear that the US did not have a "game plan" or strategy when it came to winning the war.
The girl with the flower! BEST part :) (adding to Marc and Nate) For me it was almost comic relief. And just the fact the girl is in a field picking petals off a flower is so beautiful and peaceful, contrasting with war surrounding her. And then they zoom in on her eye as if to signify how a child looks at war - how she can take time to escape and be content in the field. Just like God gives us peace & beauty in the midst of battle.
It's disconcerting knowing that nuclear weapons were considered for dealing with Vietnam. There is no way that would have ended well.
It was interesting to see how the French made all the same mistakes in Vietnam that the United States repeated years later. The citizens in neither France nor the United States gave the war in Vietnam their support. While the citizens of France were merely apathetic towards the war, (Probably due to the fact that they were busy rebuilding their own country.) the citizens of the United States staged riots and protests against the war. Neither side was able to win the support of the Vietnamese at all.
@Jacqui-quite an interesting statement about God giving peace. I wonder just how much religion played into the post-war world...or maybe lack of religion. I'm sure many people's faith was rocked drastically, shattered even. It's what I wrote my first journal entry on it, and the question makes me wonder. What changed? Was it fast? Gradual?
@Rob-dude just likes Mrs. Grady cause her last name is also the first name of a certain history teacher we all know and love!
@Jacqui, I like your connection about how God gives us peace during a battle.
I liked the reading because it was from a different point of view, which made me read it differently. I also thought the reading was interesting because I hadn't studied this war much before. It was nice to do something new.
Adding onto everyone else, I also enjoyed the difference in perspectives this week in the reading.
I'm going to change things up a little- I enjoyed the song :) and maybe I'm a nerd, but I recognized the tune to 'Beyond the Sea' almost immediately. It was fun to hear a familiar song in a different song in another language.
I thought the lyrics to "La Mer" were really interesting: how Charles Trenet uses the sea,one of the most unpredictable and violent forces of nature on earth, as something calming and tranquil (although he might have just been focusing on one lovely portion of the Mediterranean).
I also saw a minor connection with the firing on the two American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin, and the German submarine attacks on British ships (with Americans aboard) in WWI. At the Gulf of Tonkin, it was unsure whether the enemy really fired at the American ship, the "Turner Joy," yet the U.S. went headlong into fighting because of it. Similarly, when the Germans warned America that if ships entered a certain area on the sea, any Allied boat would be destroyed. But Americans were still allowed to board a British ship entering the "danger zone" and they were killed because of it, "obligating" the U.S. to join the war. I guess America doesn't like instigating a fight-they prefer the enemy to do it.
@Ryan, yes I totally agree that showing off America's new toy again (nuclear weapons) in a minor strife for independence would not have ended well (especially with the Soviets and Chinese taking interest in the rise of communism in Vietnam.
@Rob, yeah, I agree about the progression of military tactics-very interesting (and I'm sure Bobbit would agree). But, its interesting that the Vietnamese were receiving training from the Soviets in combat, and the Vietnamese were very successful in the battle field. Nevertheless, the Soviets had one of the worse military formation/tactics in the beginning of the Cold War.
I really enjoyed the readings this week. Its really interesting because i've learned about the Vietnam War before but i'd never heard of the French Indochina war. Its really cool looking at what was going on in the world around America.
I enjoyed the Vietnam documentary. definitely depressing though!
I didn't really like the La Mer song. not my type of music :) But I agree with @Mark on how Charles Trenet uses the sea as something calming.
One more thing: I LOVE Mrs. Grady! :)
La Mer was disappointing. I opened the link expecting Debussy's flowing orchestral work and instead I got a sappy french song! It wasn't terrible, just not what I was expecting. I can't say that I liked The Quiet American but it was an interesting look at every day life in the midst of petty situations such as the story of this film.
@Jacqui: I don't think that the "Girl with Flower" ad is a good example of God given peace in the midst of battle. While there are certainly examples of that, I think the ad was strictly for propaganda and portrays the destruction of innocence when world leaders have itchy trigger-fingers rather than quiet interludes in the context of war. Off of what Ryan said, I also am thankful (and amazed) that no atomic weapons have been used since Japan.
The readings struck me in two ways: first, if the Americans repeated French mistakes while fighting concealed, guerrilla warriors, it is no surprise that the westerners were losing. Second, Mrs. Grady is an epic character. I will save my remaining thoughts for class discussion!
@Nathan Kiehn
It seems many people agree with you about this weeks reading, but as you were the first to mention it...
YES! I found this weeks reading very fascinating as well! The first person perspective gave a much more down-to-earth presentation of the facts. I enjoyed it immensely (as far as complex history readings go). ;)
The humorous side comments and wordings of the writer added a refreshing touch.
Excerpts from my Journal expressing thoughts on this weeks assignees:
The Weather on the Streets:
Due to the first person style of the document, the reading was much more characteristic of a story than a dense conglomeration of facts, facts, and more facts. I found it particularly interesting to learn about the use of mules in the French-Indonesian War in Vietnam. I don’t often picture of mules when thinking about the wars of the 20th century.
The Quiet American:
It was interesting to get a glimpse of the Vietnamese life-style, their values, fears, etc. My favorite character was by far the French detective, particularly in the last twenty minutes of the film. All I could think of while he was around was “intelligence!”
Vietnam Documentary:
The burning monks were disturbing, period. I was rather shocked by footage of the harsh treatment that Vietnamese soldiers inflicted on some of the civilians: the soldier kicking the guy on the ground for example.
La Mer:
Max had me expecting the Debussy piece too (we listened to it together). I didn't mind the song, though I struggled to find a deep connection between it's lyrics and our other studies. Was there one?
And that's what I've got for the time being!
@Ian: I think the mules were used in the Greek civil war.
@Max, or just for Mrs. Grady's amusement.
@Mule Conversation, the mules were used in Greece, and were quite effective at moving munitions through the mountains, from what I've read.
LA MER:
-La Mer was....different than what I usually listen too so it was kinda hard for me to enjoy it. Although, the tune is extremely similar to the song "Beyond the Sea," which is a good song.. haha...
Vietnam Movie:
- I noticed that in the beginning of the movie they focused a lot on the destruction and damage and death of the Vietnam war. What I thought was interesting was that the vietnam government was both Nationalist and Communist at the same time.
Another interesting thing was that the communist movement in Vietnam was supported by Russia but it was not supported by the US. I also thought that the violence that they showed was nasty.
Quiet American:
- It was interesting to see the culture come alive.
Is the presentation on French contribution to Vietnamese culture or a major battle in French Indochina War optional? According to the syllabus it is.
@Mark, the syllabus is correct.
Wow, this week was interesting.
La Mer- ...The tranquility and peacefulness one associates with "the sea" could've aided the French in having a lighter outlook on life, even during the war.
Vietnam Documentary - The landowners being persecuted reminds me of Red Scarf Girl. Also, the use of violence when training the army seemed like a counterproductive cause.
Reading - I enjoyed the reading entirely. One thing that amused me was the fact that while the author wasn't meant to visit that one valley, they still welcomed him.
The Quiet American - Wow. I loved this movie. The differences between how the Vietnamese, French, English, and Americans thought astounded me, especially when their ideas were thrown against each other.
1) The French were unable to maintain control over Vietnam for two reasons. One, they were not very coordinated in their attacks or military status there. They at times only relied on a few mavericks at times. Secondly, they got involved in WWII, which really cut off whatever ties they still might have had.
2) I do not think the U.S should have been more involved. I think that this was a French conflict, and so France should figure it out. The U.S already had enough to worry about at this time.
3) It was decided that France receive help from the U.S because they did not want to have it be seen that the United Nations could be defeated by a rebel group.
4) They signified the unity that the group was going to have in the future. They were not going to have a ragtag group of rebels defeat them and certainly not at the expense of the common natural interests of many countries.
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