In the video, the Communist reforms which changed the Islamic customs reminded me of Japan's religious state post-WWII. Similar to the way the U.S. made the Japanese reject their belief that the Emperor was god, Sahar Gul mentions in the video that "the Communists were trying to change the law of God." In both Japan and Muslim countries, there were religious hierarchies that were destroyed by the new forms of government. However the countries differed in the fact that God supposedly decided who was rich and poor in Islamic faith, while the Emperor was given his status as the result of supposed blood relation to the gods. Although Japan wasn't as religious country like the Muslim ones in the Middle East, I found it interesting how in both cases, the country being forced to change has to change its religious views to accommodate the new governing rule.
Here are my thoughts on the video: The Soviet soldiers fighting in Afghanistan interested me for various reasons. First of all, the talk about death and killing. They mentioned doing it for survival, but that seemed offhand. It mostly seemed about enjoyment or curiosity, which was weird. I suppose the depressed mindset they had would give them that kind of outlook. If you’re fighting for seemingly nothing in the “Russian Vietnam,” I guess you would eventually reach that point. It’s kind of sad, though, that the Soviet government would lie to their men to the point where their soldiers are that depressed. Second of all, it did remind me of Vietnam. The whole idea of fighting for nothing and the demoralization. It’s like the battle for the Soviets of Afghanistan almost balanced out the loss for America in Vietnam.
This video was really sad. It's sad that Russia lied to it's own people so much that they didn't believe the veterans when they came back. When the soviet soldiers were asked about what it's like to kill someone, that part was the most sad. That, and how bitter they were about it. They didn't know why they were killing, they didn't like the communist system, but they had to go through that awful feeling after killing someone because it was kill or be killed.
Something I thought was really interesting about the Afghan War was how the Soviet Union and United States were involved. At first the Soviet Union supported Hafizullah Amin even though they did not agree with the way he ran things. Amin started to change Afghanistan radically. His plan was to create a completely socialistic government in five years. The Russians did not think this was a good idea and wanted him to make the change more gradual, which would help people to adjust. Despite their dislike of him they still supported him. Later the Soviets did kill Amin and during his time of being in charge they disliked his policies but still supported him. The U.S. did not want communism to spread so they aided the Mujahedeen in hopes of overthrowing the new government. The U.S. also did not completely agree with whom they supported. In the video the Americans expressed their uneasiness of the Mujahadeen. The Mujahadaeen was an extreme Islamic group who weren't exactly shining angels or the best form of government. Still the U.S. supported them like the Soviets did with Amin. Both the Soviets and the U.S. wanted to keep the other's agenda from becoming true enough to support those they didn't exactly agree with.
Is it just me, or does each era consist of cleaning up after the previous one? The two World Wars put an end to colonialism, only to result in two opposite superpowers. The Cold War ended the Soviet threat, but armed radical Islam. Who knows what monster the War on Terror will create.
What little I saw of the ruin of civilized Afghanistan was sad. I guess that the only way to keep Afghanistan out of Communist hands was to arm the radicals, but one has to wonder how much better the world would be if Afghanistan's progress hadn't been ruined by war.
Interesting video. The whole thing was informative but the most thought provoking section was the bit with the two Russian soldiers. I think that what went on there was terrible but what Mr Parker said a while a go that, "anyone could have been a Nazi," (or something like that) is true of true of these russians too. With all the media, especially movies, that feature the Nazi or Russians as the bad guys it is easy to dehumanize them, to vilify them. Then it struck me that this is what we discussed when we read Night. That the Nazis dehumanized the jews. I think it is ironic that at least I am so quick to dehumanize these people. Now what they did was terrible but I cannot say that I, under the right (wrong) circumstances, might not have done the same. I'd like to think that I would not have but I don't know. Those soldiers were just a reminder to me to stop thinking of these people as ruthless killers (though often they do deserve to be thought of in that light).
In response to N8. Yes I did not read your comment before I wrote mine but I agree with your sentiment that these men were unusually cruel. And the comparison of Russia-Afghanistan and America-Vietnam is a good one. I don't remember the name but I believe there was a massacre that American soldiers committed to a Vietnam village.
Through this week’s reading/documentary, I saw man’s brokenness and life’s fragility. In the video, the contrast between Soviet and Afghan individuals particularly interested me. Hearing their different views helped me better understand the war. Specifically, the Afghan’s story about losing his daughter and family affected me. “I lost everything,” he commented. Another man asked, “Even if we do cry, who will wipe away our tears?” I saw the desperation, the longing for hope. Lately I’ve been remembering that, throughout the world, people are dying every second. It’s mind-boggling. And of those people, how many have made peace with God? They need to know JESUS. He is hope! HE is the answer, the one who fills the emptiness. It makes me ask, “What am I doing? Do I display the truth of the gospel?” What also struck me in the video were the women notified about losing their sons in war. One woman mentioned, “I had only received a letter from him the day before.”
I also enjoyed listening to “Afghan Elvis.” Such an interesting story!
Like Frannie said, it was sad to see the USSR lie to her people about the war in Afghanistan. (Not that I am surprised, but...)
I think the most interesting aspect of this war are the nations involved. This was really a war between Soviet Russia and the United States. The Russians even told their soldiers that they were going to fight the Americans, but where confused when they got to Afghanistan when there where no Americans to fight. The fact that the US "hid" behind another country has two sides in my mind. First, I think it was horrible to fight "behind" another country, but at the same time, this was the only way the US could fight the USSR without it becoming a nuclear war. The US and other anti-communist countries all rallied behind the Afghan rebels and let them fight their war.
Wow this video was really sad. Watching these documentaries is so different from just reading about what happened in history. Actually seeing the people who were there talk about how their families were killed was hard to watch. What really stuck out to me in the video was that one part where the soviet soldier was talking about how they poured kerosene over the women and children and set them on fire. He just seemed so detached from it all. It was really sad. I like Jacqui's comment about how much the people there needed Jesus. On a lighter note I liked the Afghan Elvis story.
Journal Post: They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace. Jeremiah 8:11 Wars begin and end, grudges are made and healed, but there is never any peace. Allies, once fighting for the same cause, renew there differences and begin the process all over again. As in Czechoslovakia, it seems that there was light censorship in pre-Soviet Afghanistan. Ahmad Zahir resembled the American pop-star and many were free to practice Isalm. Hafizullah Amin, a Marxist and therefore anti-religion, began chasing Islam out of Afghanistan, but not without a reaction from the Muslims. Islamist groups such as the Mujahedeen fought back. I wonder if the jihad that similar groups have declared on the U.S. is because of the threat of Socialism in America, although that may be a stretch as I think (and hope) that we are still a long way from that.... Although the Soviets, after invading Afghanistan, couldn't hold their own, the Mujahedeen did not stop with the Soviets. Instead, they continued targeting groups within their organization, and eventually participated in the attack on America. On a lighter note, the story of Ahmad Zahir fascinated me. ALL MODERN POP MUSIC SOUNDS THE SAME. This is a perfect illustration. I will conclude with a quote by Igor Stravinsky: when asked what the best advice for young composers was, he responded, "Steal."
It was really sad seeing how some people responded to the Soviet's idea of reforming Afghanistan. especially when they burnt down schools. But I do think it was a bad idea for the Soviets to attempt that- did they really think that the people would accept that kind of reform?? Also, why did the US support the peasants fighting? Because they really didn't want the Communists in there?
One of the beginning quotes from an American CIA agent speaks volume to a recurring theme in the latter half of the twentieth century: "This was a war fought with our gold, but with their blood." America supplies seemingly unstable countries with dangerous weapons (sometimes, with WMDs). They usually had several reasons behind this, but there are two primary reasons we see happening several times. First, American send aid to colonized countries who sought to be decolonized. And the second was to eliminate the threat of communist spread. Sometimes, like in the case of the Kurdish war and the war we studied this week, there were consequences. Both the Americans and Soviets supplied their favored side in the war. But, after the war, what they really did was supply a civil war in Afghanistan with weapons that helped increase the death toll. Then again, there is that ever-looming question that arises: What would have happened if American didn't have some involvement?
Echoing Mark, the whole "our gold/their blood" line stood out to me too. While it's merely a motivational speech, I was surprised to hear the U.S. officer in Afghanistan say, "you'll have your homes and mosques back again, because your cause is right and god [Allah] is on your side." It seems quite typical of Americans, when giving motivational speeches, to play the God card (no matter what religion is being alluded to). I think it's sad how often "God" is used as an ends to a different means. What the guy is really saying is, "you're killing communists, we can't get involved, so keep at it!"
As for the Elvis video, I thought it was interesting how people with very different lives were able to find common ground in music. Gregory Warner was able to thoroughly enjoy his stay in Afghanistan, because he could relate to the people through music. I enjoyed hearing the actual recordings of the conversations.
@Christy I think that's an excellent point. It's something I've though about a lot too, as it's been common occurrence. It's surprising how far the U.S. and Soviets were willing to go to fight the opposing viewpoint through the weapons of other countries.
@Max I'd agree that a lot of pop music sounds the same. Pop artists generally emulate what sells, hence the similarities. I did think the more authentic instrumentation of the Afghans was cool though.
Journal post: "God has decided who is rich and who is poor. It can't be changed by communism." -Sahar Gul
I now love this quote. While it might imply favoritism of God to some, I feel that it really does make sense even now. Those who have worked quite hard in their lives to get somewhere shouldn't have to bend to the will of the government, nor be put on the same level of a neighbor that doesn't do anything at all to make a living for themselves, though still gets the same benefits because of communism.
The cover artist was strange to me.. However, it seems that the good that Zahir did for the Afghan people really helped them as a community for a while. In this way, he reminds me of Bob Marley or any other musicians that used their lyrics to promote something that was good in their eyes.. Until the person was eliminated by some coincidental accident.
These videos were very sad and depressing. Just all the talk of death. I also found that it was interesting that the U.S realized how much harder they would fight if they brought a religious aspect into the war.
19 comments:
In the video, the Communist reforms which changed the Islamic customs reminded me of Japan's religious state post-WWII. Similar to the way the U.S. made the Japanese reject their belief that the Emperor was god, Sahar Gul mentions in the video that "the Communists were trying to change the law of God." In both Japan and Muslim countries, there were religious hierarchies that were destroyed by the new forms of government. However the countries differed in the fact that God supposedly decided who was rich and poor in Islamic faith, while the Emperor was given his status as the result of supposed blood relation to the gods. Although Japan wasn't as religious country like the Muslim ones in the Middle East, I found it interesting how in both cases, the country being forced to change has to change its religious views to accommodate the new governing rule.
Here are my thoughts on the video: The Soviet soldiers fighting in Afghanistan interested me for various reasons. First of all, the talk about death and killing. They mentioned doing it for survival, but that seemed offhand. It mostly seemed about enjoyment or curiosity, which was weird. I suppose the depressed mindset they had would give them that kind of outlook. If you’re fighting for seemingly nothing in the “Russian Vietnam,” I guess you would eventually reach that point. It’s kind of sad, though, that the Soviet government would lie to their men to the point where their soldiers are that depressed. Second of all, it did remind me of Vietnam. The whole idea of fighting for nothing and the demoralization. It’s like the battle for the Soviets of Afghanistan almost balanced out the loss for America in Vietnam.
This video was really sad. It's sad that Russia lied to it's own people so much that they didn't believe the veterans when they came back. When the soviet soldiers were asked about what it's like to kill someone, that part was the most sad. That, and how bitter they were about it. They didn't know why they were killing, they didn't like the communist system, but they had to go through that awful feeling after killing someone because it was kill or be killed.
Something I thought was really interesting about the Afghan War was how the Soviet Union and United States were involved. At first the Soviet Union supported Hafizullah Amin even though they did not agree with the way he ran things. Amin started to change Afghanistan radically. His plan was to create a completely socialistic government in five years. The Russians did not think this was a good idea and wanted him to make the change more gradual, which would help people to adjust. Despite their dislike of him they still supported him. Later the Soviets did kill Amin and during his time of being in charge they disliked his policies but still supported him. The U.S. did not want communism to spread so they aided the Mujahedeen in hopes of overthrowing the new government. The U.S. also did not completely agree with whom they supported. In the video the Americans expressed their uneasiness of the Mujahadeen. The Mujahadaeen was an extreme Islamic group who weren't exactly shining angels or the best form of government. Still the U.S. supported them like the Soviets did with Amin. Both the Soviets and the U.S. wanted to keep the other's agenda from becoming true enough to support those they didn't exactly agree with.
Is it just me, or does each era consist of cleaning up after the previous one? The two World Wars put an end to colonialism, only to result in two opposite superpowers. The Cold War ended the Soviet threat, but armed radical Islam. Who knows what monster the War on Terror will create.
What little I saw of the ruin of civilized Afghanistan was sad. I guess that the only way to keep Afghanistan out of Communist hands was to arm the radicals, but one has to wonder how much better the world would be if Afghanistan's progress hadn't been ruined by war.
Interesting video. The whole thing was informative but the most thought provoking section was the bit with the two Russian soldiers. I think that what went on there was terrible but what Mr Parker said a while a go that, "anyone could have been a Nazi," (or something like that) is true of true of these russians too. With all the media, especially movies, that feature the Nazi or Russians as the bad guys it is easy to dehumanize them, to vilify them. Then it struck me that this is what we discussed when we read Night. That the Nazis dehumanized the jews. I think it is ironic that at least I am so quick to dehumanize these people. Now what they did was terrible but I cannot say that I, under the right (wrong) circumstances, might not have done the same. I'd like to think that I would not have but I don't know. Those soldiers were just a reminder to me to stop thinking of these people as ruthless killers (though often they do deserve to be thought of in that light).
In response to N8. Yes I did not read your comment before I wrote mine but I agree with your sentiment that these men were unusually cruel. And the comparison of Russia-Afghanistan and America-Vietnam is a good one. I don't remember the name but I believe there was a massacre that American soldiers committed to a Vietnam village.
Through this week’s reading/documentary, I saw man’s brokenness and life’s fragility. In the video, the contrast between Soviet and Afghan individuals particularly interested me. Hearing their different views helped me better understand the war. Specifically, the Afghan’s story about losing his daughter and family affected me. “I lost everything,” he commented. Another man asked, “Even if we do cry, who will wipe away our tears?” I saw the desperation, the longing for hope. Lately I’ve been remembering that, throughout the world, people are dying every second. It’s mind-boggling. And of those people, how many have made peace with God? They need to know JESUS. He is hope! HE is the answer, the one who fills the emptiness. It makes me ask, “What am I doing? Do I display the truth of the gospel?” What also struck me in the video were the women notified about losing their sons in war. One woman mentioned, “I had only received a letter from him the day before.”
I also enjoyed listening to “Afghan Elvis.” Such an interesting story!
Like Frannie said, it was sad to see the USSR lie to her people about the war in Afghanistan. (Not that I am surprised, but...)
I think the most interesting aspect of this war are the nations involved. This was really a war between Soviet Russia and the United States. The Russians even told their soldiers that they were going to fight the Americans, but where confused when they got to Afghanistan when there where no Americans to fight. The fact that the US "hid" behind another country has two sides in my mind. First, I think it was horrible to fight "behind" another country, but at the same time, this was the only way the US could fight the USSR without it becoming a nuclear war.
The US and other anti-communist countries all rallied behind the Afghan rebels and let them fight their war.
Yeah Nate, the Soviet soldiers' talk interested me too. Nice connection about Vietnam!
Wow this video was really sad. Watching these documentaries is so different from just reading about what happened in history. Actually seeing the people who were there talk about how their families were killed was hard to watch. What really stuck out to me in the video was that one part where the soviet soldier was talking about how they poured kerosene over the women and children and set them on fire. He just seemed so detached from it all. It was really sad. I like Jacqui's comment about how much the people there needed Jesus.
On a lighter note I liked the Afghan Elvis story.
Journal Post:
They have healed the wound of my people lightly,
saying, ‘Peace, peace,’
when there is no peace. Jeremiah 8:11
Wars begin and end, grudges are made and healed, but there is never any peace. Allies, once fighting for the same cause, renew there differences and begin the process all over again.
As in Czechoslovakia, it seems that there was light censorship in pre-Soviet Afghanistan. Ahmad Zahir resembled the American pop-star and many were free to practice Isalm. Hafizullah Amin, a Marxist and therefore anti-religion, began chasing Islam out of Afghanistan, but not without a reaction from the Muslims. Islamist groups such as the Mujahedeen fought back. I wonder if the jihad that similar groups have declared on the U.S. is because of the threat of Socialism in America, although that may be a stretch as I think (and hope) that we are still a long way from that....
Although the Soviets, after invading Afghanistan, couldn't hold their own, the Mujahedeen did not stop with the Soviets. Instead, they continued targeting groups within their organization, and eventually participated in the attack on America.
On a lighter note, the story of Ahmad Zahir fascinated me. ALL MODERN POP MUSIC SOUNDS THE SAME. This is a perfect illustration. I will conclude with a quote by Igor Stravinsky: when asked what the best advice for young composers was, he responded, "Steal."
Journal post:
It was really sad seeing how some people responded to the Soviet's idea of reforming Afghanistan. especially when they burnt down schools. But I do think it was a bad idea for the Soviets to attempt that- did they really think that the people would accept that kind of reform??
Also, why did the US support the peasants fighting? Because they really didn't want the Communists in there?
One of the beginning quotes from an American CIA agent speaks volume to a recurring theme in the latter half of the twentieth century: "This was a war fought with our gold, but with their blood." America supplies seemingly unstable countries with dangerous weapons (sometimes, with WMDs). They usually had several reasons behind this, but there are two primary reasons we see happening several times. First, American send aid to colonized countries who sought to be decolonized. And the second was to eliminate the threat of communist spread. Sometimes, like in the case of the Kurdish war and the war we studied this week, there were consequences. Both the Americans and Soviets supplied their favored side in the war. But, after the war, what they really did was supply a civil war in Afghanistan with weapons that helped increase the death toll. Then again, there is that ever-looming question that arises: What would have happened if American didn't have some involvement?
Cheers,
-Mark
Echoing Mark, the whole "our gold/their blood" line stood out to me too. While it's merely a motivational speech, I was surprised to hear the U.S. officer in Afghanistan say, "you'll have your homes and mosques back again, because your cause is right and god [Allah] is on your side." It seems quite typical of Americans, when giving motivational speeches, to play the God card (no matter what religion is being alluded to). I think it's sad how often "God" is used as an ends to a different means. What the guy is really saying is, "you're killing communists, we can't get involved, so keep at it!"
As for the Elvis video, I thought it was interesting how people with very different lives were able to find common ground in music. Gregory Warner was able to thoroughly enjoy his stay in Afghanistan, because he could relate to the people through music. I enjoyed hearing the actual recordings of the conversations.
@Christy
I think that's an excellent point. It's something I've though about a lot too, as it's been common occurrence. It's surprising how far the U.S. and Soviets were willing to go to fight the opposing viewpoint through the weapons of other countries.
@Max
I'd agree that a lot of pop music sounds the same. Pop artists generally emulate what sells, hence the similarities. I did think the more authentic instrumentation of the Afghans was cool though.
Journal post:
"God has decided who is rich and who is poor. It can't be changed by communism." -Sahar Gul
I now love this quote. While it might imply favoritism of God to some, I feel that it really does make sense even now. Those who have worked quite hard in their lives to get somewhere shouldn't have to bend to the will of the government, nor be put on the same level of a neighbor that doesn't do anything at all to make a living for themselves, though still gets the same benefits because of communism.
The cover artist was strange to me.. However, it seems that the good that Zahir did for the Afghan people really helped them as a community for a while. In this way, he reminds me of Bob Marley or any other musicians that used their lyrics to promote something that was good in their eyes.. Until the person was eliminated by some coincidental accident.
These videos were very sad and depressing. Just all the talk of death. I also found that it was interesting that the U.S realized how much harder they would fight if they brought a religious aspect into the war.
Post a Comment