I just finished Operation Wrath of God. Who thought it was a good idea to make a bilingual documentary? I learned a lot from the film, but I'm sure I would have learned more if I was bilingual. I guess that the budget was so small that hiring translators would cost more money than an expanded audience would bring in.
The struggle between the Mossad and Black September seemed like a gang war writ large to me. International laws were disregarded and lives were taken simply out of revenge.
Watching our video legally on Hulu was nice for a a change!
I agree with Ryan about the language...I wish there had been subtitles.
I am almost done with "21 Hours" but what I have seen makes me like "Wrath of God" more. Granted, "21 Hours" is historical fiction, but I can totally see Meir's longing for revenge. I liked "Wrath of God" because it was completely different than anything we've read about. No big wars with two armies duking it out. Just a good, plain ole' vengeance hit squad snuffing out the bad guys. Fun video. I'm also a little weird, so if no else agrees, I understand.
As for the Red Army Faction, hearing the stories of the characters was interesting. I'm seeing this "thread" that Mr. Parker mentioned, starting from WWII at least. I get extra credit for that, right?
I know that "21 Hours" is historical fiction, but the Germans did such a horrible job at negotiation, it's no wonder they lost control. I'm not saying that the outcome would not result in deaths and I'm not saying that I'm an expert at negotiation but I feel like you shouldn't call a terrorist an "animal" while dealing with a hostage situation.
The Wrath of God was so interesting! I enjoyed learning about it? Gosh, I feel like a horrible person...
21 Hours at Munich- It was very nice to see the locations at which the events of this actually took place. This movie also made "The Wrath of God" make much more sense. (I thought it was pretty amusing to see arabs in 70's garb)
The Wrath of God- I loved this documentary [even though it was bilingual] I felt like I was watching a documentary on a suspense book rather than actual historical events. I really admire Golda Mier's courage and persistance in revenging the death of the Israeli athletes- she didn't give up. The fact that Israel did not "admit" to any of the murders was pretty funny- they had to deny any knowledge of the assassinations for legal purposes, but really, who was actually fooled? hmmm....
The Red Army Faction- Very cool to see how this group and the Black September group worked together. They are two totally separate entities, but must not be separated when studied.
I enjoyed 21 Hours at Munich. It was nice to learn about it in a story form. @ Frannie HmmI don't know how you would be able to successfully negotiate with terrorists without giving in to them. It doesn't seem to work out well too often. But that something to think about.
It was really interesting to see how Mossad was able to get the leaders of Black September when they were across the world.
It was interesting to read about the Red Army Faction. You hear about leftist violence during that time but I didn't know anything about the RAF or what any of it was about. I'm certainly aware of it now.
In the Baader Meinhof Gang, I was surprised that the terrorists went through those lengths to free fellow terrorists. I was also unaware of all the women involved in the gang, and even some of the head figures of the gang were women. It was also interesting to watch how terrorists groups like Black September and the RAF work together.
I liked the line, "terrorize the terrorists." Interestingly describes the counter-terrorist operation.
And I like Ryan's comment about the Mossad vs. Black September conflict being like a gang war. I looked at Mossad like "the good guys" at first, but really they both were acting illegally, and crossing the moral question, when is it okay to kill.
Something that I've really been thinking about since I watched 21 Hours in Munich is how they filmed it in the actual spot it happened. At first I thought that was really cool but when I think about their family members and those who were killed it makes me have second thoughts. To have an actor pretend to die in the same place as real person seems strange to me. That room that they filmed it in was place those men spent their last hours. If I was a family member of one of the victims I think that would make me upset. What do you guys think of it?
One thing I was thinking about while watching the videos was how nuclear technology affected what we were learning about. For example,I noticed there was a sort of chain reaction. Some of the RAF began as a protest against nuclear technology (according to the video). As the RAF and other terrorists alike started, well, terrorizing, society's initial reaction was panic, that slowly progressed into extreme caution and paranoia.People's fears are screaming on the inside, but in most cases, the fears are contained and people go about as usual-a kind of "suppressed" chaos if you will.
Furthermore, as we have discussed in the rise of competition, we not only see this development of irrational rationality in nuclear warfare(keep producing nuclear weapons to compete with foreign nations), but this is seen in those who give in to their fears and join acts of terrorism, such as the RAF. They cling to the idea that through irrational bombings, they can achieve a better and more rational culture. Not really sure if this is a full proof observation, but just something I noticed.
My blessings and prayers to the grieving Stevens family. May God afford you peace and comfort in these hard times.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. It kind of seemed disrespectful to reenact someone else's death exactly where they died. I mean, the movie was most likely made in honor of them and to serve as a reminder of that dreadful time, but it does seem unnecessary to shoot a movie where innocent people died.
Sorry this is almost late almost forgot. I thought the plane blowing up thing was weird. I don't know what kind of message that, that was trying to give. "O NO these guys must be bad they have a fear of heights." It did show that they were ready to do drastic things for their goal.
And yes it is really sad to see all these wasted lives. It makes me wonder what kind of situations these people are in to make them think what they are doing is okay. People must have a narrow vision because they can always do bad things on a large scale (hitler youth comes to mind). Humans are easy to brainwash.
Okay, before I do my blog post, I'm going to rain on the parade: the end of 21 Hours in Munich was SO LAME; not just because the Israeli athletes died, but it wasn't even tragic when they died. The helicopter exploded and the guns went off. It was very real and sad, but it could have been tragic! If only John Williams had done the music... *sigh* By the way, Williams actually did do the music for a film called Munich by Steven Spielberg. Does anyone know anything about that film?
The Mossad's motive of revenge was interesting. It seems as though many Jews have gone the Ellie Wiesel route and forsaken heavy reliance on God. I'll admit that I enjoyed watching Mossad agents "hunting down the squealers" until they killed the wrong red prince. Obviously, it was wrong morally to take an innocent life (and revenge for that matter!), but killing the wrong target seems very 'unprofessional' on the organizational level.
This is a long post, so I'll beg the question by saying that the Red Army Faction, the German terror group, was called the Red Army Faction.
@ Christy: While I understand your sensitivity to the possible feelings of the victims families, I don't have a problem with shooting on a set where innocent have died. I think if you are making a film about the Munich attacks, you might as well film it in Munich using the most accurate locations as possible. If I were a victim's family member, I don't think I would mind. (As it turns out I am simply an American audience member).
@ Rob: Red Army Faction...Royal Air Force...These groups have so much in common!
"21 Hours in Munich" was an incredibly intriguing film, but very sobering and unsatisfactory when all is said and done (which also means it's probably a very historically accurate and well made film). I had no idea that had occurred at the 1972 Olympics. How horrible and wild, especially as it was in Germany of all places, just under three decades after the holocaust.
Drawing a connection between the Olympic event and all the modern literature we've been reading for Mrs. G., I think I see where all these despairing "sad/unsatisfactory endings" writers were coming from.
While "Operation Wrath of God" was horrible, the motives were understandable, and it once again shows how elite and dangerous Israel can be (except for the wrong target moment, how tragic. I think that falls in the "epic fails" category).
"Operation Wrath of God" also reminded me a ton of the Bourne movies, but the real life versions. For all you Batman fans, I couldn't help but think of the Joker's targeting systems too. I think culture might take this stuff a bit too lightly, considering the kinds of things that really do happen (though the situations admittedly make for fascinating movies).
@Ryan Ditto about the bilingual issue. I noted it too.
@Mark No comment about how easily the terrorists at Munich were to willing to extend the time? ;)
@Max I thought the minimal use of music in the film was quite powerful, especially considering the events really occurred. Silence speaks. It added a whole new level of realism. I do recognize that you probably only took a stab at it for the sake of John Williams though. ;)
I find it really interesting that they chose right at that moment to take the Israelis hostage. Is it because everyone will see or that no one would attack them because it was in such a heavily populated area. To me it seemed that the "attackers" didn't think the whole scenario through well enough. Idk....it was interesting but...idk...
I've thought over the two videos that I took the time to watch, (Operation Wrath of God and The Baader Meinhof Gang) and I guess I was ultimately reminded of modern-day Jihad and other terrorist groups.. These were no doubt the roots of the whole idea, right?
20 comments:
I just finished Operation Wrath of God. Who thought it was a good idea to make a bilingual documentary? I learned a lot from the film, but I'm sure I would have learned more if I was bilingual. I guess that the budget was so small that hiring translators would cost more money than an expanded audience would bring in.
The struggle between the Mossad and Black September seemed like a gang war writ large to me. International laws were disregarded and lives were taken simply out of revenge.
Watching our video legally on Hulu was nice for a a change!
I agree with Ryan about the language...I wish there had been subtitles.
I am almost done with "21 Hours" but what I have seen makes me like "Wrath of God" more. Granted, "21 Hours" is historical fiction, but I can totally see Meir's longing for revenge. I liked "Wrath of God" because it was completely different than anything we've read about. No big wars with two armies duking it out. Just a good, plain ole' vengeance hit squad snuffing out the bad guys. Fun video. I'm also a little weird, so if no else agrees, I understand.
As for the Red Army Faction, hearing the stories of the characters was interesting. I'm seeing this "thread" that Mr. Parker mentioned, starting from WWII at least. I get extra credit for that, right?
I know that "21 Hours" is historical fiction, but the Germans did such a horrible job at negotiation, it's no wonder they lost control. I'm not saying that the outcome would not result in deaths and I'm not saying that I'm an expert at negotiation but I feel like you shouldn't call a terrorist an "animal" while dealing with a hostage situation.
The Wrath of God was so interesting! I enjoyed learning about it? Gosh, I feel like a horrible person...
All three of these videos where very interesting!
21 Hours at Munich- It was very nice to see the locations at which the events of this actually took place. This movie also made "The Wrath of God" make much more sense. (I thought it was pretty amusing to see arabs in 70's garb)
The Wrath of God- I loved this documentary [even though it was bilingual] I felt like I was watching a documentary on a suspense book rather than actual historical events. I really admire Golda Mier's courage and persistance in revenging the death of the Israeli athletes- she didn't give up. The fact that Israel did not "admit" to any of the murders was pretty funny- they had to deny any knowledge of the assassinations for legal purposes, but really, who was actually fooled? hmmm....
The Red Army Faction- Very cool to see how this group and the Black September group worked together. They are two totally separate entities, but must not be separated when studied.
I enjoyed 21 Hours at Munich. It was nice to learn about it in a story form. @ Frannie HmmI don't know how you would be able to successfully negotiate with terrorists without giving in to them. It doesn't seem to work out well too often. But that something to think about.
It was really interesting to see how Mossad was able to get the leaders of Black September when they were across the world.
It was interesting to read about the Red Army Faction. You hear about leftist violence during that time but I didn't know anything about the RAF or what any of it was about. I'm certainly aware of it now.
In the Baader Meinhof Gang, I was surprised that the terrorists went through those lengths to free fellow terrorists. I was also unaware of all the women involved in the gang, and even some of the head figures of the gang were women. It was also interesting to watch how terrorists groups like Black September and the RAF work together.
I liked the line, "terrorize the terrorists." Interestingly describes the counter-terrorist operation.
There were no readings for this week's homework, do we still do the journal entries?
And I like Ryan's comment about the Mossad vs. Black September conflict being like a gang war. I looked at Mossad like "the good guys" at first, but really they both were acting illegally, and crossing the moral question, when is it okay to kill.
It helped to watch the Red Army Faction after reading about it in the coursepack. It's so sad how they wasted their lives and destroyed others':(
Yeah, like Marc commented, seeing women terrorists surprised me.
Something that I've really been thinking about since I watched 21 Hours in Munich is how they filmed it in the actual spot it happened. At first I thought that was really cool but when I think about their family members and those who were killed it makes me have second thoughts. To have an actor pretend to die in the same place as real person seems strange to me. That room that they filmed it in was place those men spent their last hours. If I was a family member of one of the victims I think that would make me upset. What do you guys think of it?
Sorry, no 5th person post...
One thing I was thinking about while watching the videos was how nuclear technology affected what we were learning about. For example,I noticed there was a sort of chain reaction. Some of the RAF began as a protest against nuclear technology (according to the video). As the RAF and other terrorists alike started, well, terrorizing, society's initial reaction was panic, that slowly progressed into extreme caution and paranoia.People's fears are screaming on the inside, but in most cases, the fears are contained and people go about as usual-a kind of "suppressed" chaos if you will.
Furthermore, as we have discussed in the rise of competition, we not only see this development of irrational rationality in nuclear warfare(keep producing nuclear weapons to compete with foreign nations), but this is seen in those who give in to their fears and join acts of terrorism, such as the RAF. They cling to the idea that through irrational bombings, they can achieve a better and more rational culture. Not really sure if this is a full proof observation, but just something I noticed.
My blessings and prayers to the grieving Stevens family. May God afford you peace and comfort in these hard times.
Cheers
@Christy,
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. It kind of seemed disrespectful to reenact someone else's death exactly where they died. I mean, the movie was most likely made in honor of them and to serve as a reminder of that dreadful time, but it does seem unnecessary to shoot a movie where innocent people died.
Like Ryan said I found it frustrating that there were no subtitles for the documentary.
I thought watching 21 Hours was interesting, I liked hearing about an event in a story form. I found it easier to pay attention to than a documentary.
Sorry this is almost late almost forgot.
I thought the plane blowing up thing was weird. I don't know what kind of message that, that was trying to give. "O NO these guys must be bad they have a fear of heights." It did show that they were ready to do drastic things for their goal.
And yes it is really sad to see all these wasted lives. It makes me wonder what kind of situations these people are in to make them think what they are doing is okay. People must have a narrow vision because they can always do bad things on a large scale (hitler youth comes to mind). Humans are easy to brainwash.
P.S. Is the RAF also the air force in Britain?
Okay, before I do my blog post, I'm going to rain on the parade: the end of 21 Hours in Munich was SO LAME; not just because the Israeli athletes died, but it wasn't even tragic when they died. The helicopter exploded and the guns went off. It was very real and sad, but it could have been tragic! If only John Williams had done the music... *sigh* By the way, Williams actually did do the music for a film called Munich by Steven Spielberg. Does anyone know anything about that film?
The Mossad's motive of revenge was interesting. It seems as though many Jews have gone the Ellie Wiesel route and forsaken heavy reliance on God. I'll admit that I enjoyed watching Mossad agents "hunting down the squealers" until they killed the wrong red prince. Obviously, it was wrong morally to take an innocent life (and revenge for that matter!), but killing the wrong target seems very 'unprofessional' on the organizational level.
This is a long post, so I'll beg the question by saying that the Red Army Faction, the German terror group, was called the Red Army Faction.
@ Christy: While I understand your sensitivity to the possible feelings of the victims families, I don't have a problem with shooting on a set where innocent have died. I think if you are making a film about the Munich attacks, you might as well film it in Munich using the most accurate locations as possible. If I were a victim's family member, I don't think I would mind. (As it turns out I am simply an American audience member).
@ Rob: Red Army Faction...Royal Air Force...These groups have so much in common!
"21 Hours in Munich" was an incredibly intriguing film, but very sobering and unsatisfactory when all is said and done (which also means it's probably a very historically accurate and well made film). I had no idea that had occurred at the 1972 Olympics. How horrible and wild, especially as it was in Germany of all places, just under three decades after the holocaust.
Drawing a connection between the Olympic event and all the modern literature we've been reading for Mrs. G., I think I see where all these despairing "sad/unsatisfactory endings" writers were coming from.
While "Operation Wrath of God" was horrible, the motives were understandable, and it once again shows how elite and dangerous Israel can be (except for the wrong target moment, how tragic. I think that falls in the "epic fails" category).
"Operation Wrath of God" also reminded me a ton of the Bourne movies, but the real life versions. For all you Batman fans, I couldn't help but think of the Joker's targeting systems too. I think culture might take this stuff a bit too lightly, considering the kinds of things that really do happen (though the situations admittedly make for fascinating movies).
@Ryan
Ditto about the bilingual issue. I noted it too.
@Mark
No comment about how easily the terrorists at Munich were to willing to extend the time? ;)
@Max
I thought the minimal use of music in the film was quite powerful, especially considering the events really occurred. Silence speaks. It added a whole new level of realism. I do recognize that you probably only took a stab at it for the sake of John Williams though. ;)
I find it really interesting that they chose right at that moment to take the Israelis hostage. Is it because everyone will see or that no one would attack them because it was in such a heavily populated area. To me it seemed that the "attackers" didn't think the whole scenario through well enough. Idk....it was interesting but...idk...
wow. 21 hours at munich was totally depressing! but I agree @Megan that it was interesting to see where some of those things took place.
I've thought over the two videos that I took the time to watch, (Operation Wrath of God and The Baader Meinhof Gang) and I guess I was ultimately reminded of modern-day Jihad and other terrorist groups.. These were no doubt the roots of the whole idea, right?
@Ian, good point. I will now illustrate the logic of the terrorists in "21 Hours in Munich":
Terrorists: "You have five minutes to meed our exceedingly simple demands!"
Negotiator: "Give us a month."
Terrorists: "Okay."
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